In conversation: Pol Taburet, Dexter Navy and Finn Constantine

Pol Taburet: We wanted to exchange
Dexter Navy: We wanted to make our worlds collide

Finn Constantine: Let’s start at the beginning. I’m interested in how you two met. What were the circumstances? How did this friendship develop?

Pol Taburet: I really admired Dexter’s work. I was first introduced to him when I saw his films online and it just so happened that my girlfriend Mathilde was working with Dex. I think we first met in Paris in a restaurant called Le Martel. I went with Mathilde to meet you.

Dexter Navy: I think we should show some love to Happy Nouilles because that’s where we actually became friends.

PT: Ah, putain! The first time I met Dexter was with Mathilde, but after, Dexter invited me to lunch in Paris. We went to Happy Nouilles, which is a restaurant I like. I remember we had a great conversation about what you were working on at the time and about the work you wanted to do.

DN: I think what we share in our work is the idea of creating worlds. Both of our worlds feel quite dark, each in their own way. We spoke about collaborating and working on a video or photography project together – it wasn’t anything specific.

PT: We wanted to exchange.

DN: We wanted to make our worlds collide.

FC: These images and the video feel like a reflection of both your worlds. You’re both artists who work alone so collaboration can be daunting. So, when we began to put this project together, what was that conversation like?

PT: There was this excitement that you rarely get when working with another artist because it can be very frightening. I didn’t feel like a collaboration that was going to have two sides, it was more like having lots of ideas that could be made possible by two people collaborating. We had a conversation on Mathilde’s birthday, completely drunk but really passionate about what we wanted to do. Dex has this brain with so many ideas and a mindset that can actually make things happen. I felt he got my vibe completely.

DN: It was also about us becoming friends and understanding each other at the same time. I’ve only known Pol for about two years. Coming up with the idea of the mask was funny because Pol said to me “I have this character called PYT (Pretty Young Thing). But I didn’t realise his middle name is Yves, so the whole time I was like, “PYT is his alter ego.” But then he explained, “No, PYT are my initials!” The whole thing was a process of exploring. It was about having fun and about me wanting to capture Pol in a way in which he hadn’t been seen before. Like ‘“What character is he in his world?”

PT: I was also quite surprised because Dex came up with the idea without knowing that I already wanted to make something like that. We wanted to express different facets of a mind. You can feel that in the different scenes in the story. It was something I wanted to make a long time ago but I didn’t have the capacity. The conversation flowed when we began discussing this idea. Also, working with this object of the mask is interesting because this PYT character becomes this object of narration.

DN: Weirdly, I had breakfast with Finn one day in London and he told me I should visit the Daidō Moriyama show at The Photographers’ Gallery. There were photos of this guy in a mask. I liked it but I didn’t think too much about it. Then Pol mentioned that he liked the idea of a mask, and I said to him “Oh I just saw this show…” It was just so fluid how it all came about.  Like I say a word, you say a word, he says a word. It was like suddenly the world started evolving effortlessly.

FC: I think that’s probably because you’re friends as well. I think it’s helpful to have a foundation of friendship when walking into something like this. If you don’t know each other and each other’s sensibilities then it would be much harder. The fact that you have a relationship means you can speak on a more honest level.

DN: I think when you admire someone’s work you start to study them. You try and understand who they are even if you don’t know them.

PT: Even before we met I was watching a lot of Dexter’s work, so when we met I was able to put a face to all the work I’d seen.

FC: Pol, you work mostly across painting and sculpture, and with this project, it’s a different kind of imagery, so in a sense, you don’t have as much control because it’s a collaboration and you’re working with other people. How did you find that process of not being the only hand in the work?

PT: I think I sometimes try to escape from my painting through sculpture, installation or photography. So this collaboration is ultimately part of this logic of openness or escape, in the same way that the mask can represent a form of escape from reality or escape from oneself. So it was quite nice to sometimes lose control by letting Dexter compose the image and become an object, a puppet or a character in one of his fantasies. It’s interesting for me because it’s rare that I’m not in full control of my work.

FC: There is a puppet in the magazine. Where did that come from?

PT: It came from this photo of this famous actor, Buster Keaton.

DN: And also your mum!

FC: What’s the story with your mum?

PT: My mum used to make lots of puppets at home, these puppets on strings, like Pinocchio. I like the authenticity behind creating a character and creating some life.

DN: For me, it was like jumping into one of your paintings and seeing what that world really looks like.

FC: What I take from it – especially from being on set – is that it was like being in one of Pol’s paintings and also in one of Dexter’s music videos; the world creation, the characters, the mask and the puppet – all these different things going on, it was very surreal. You’re inspired by Surrealism a lot, aren’t you?

DN: Yeah, but Surrealism in reality. I have a lot of nightmares and a lot of fucked up dreams. There’s this idea of trying to figure out what’s real. For me, it’s about being in the middle of that. Life is already so surreal. And how do you convey that in imagery? There’s also the challenge of transforming Pol’s world of painting into a film.

FC: Pol, out of all the scenes in the magazine (and I know we shot a lot), was there a specific one that you felt captured the essence of the project?

PT: I’ve made a lot of work about bodies. I think this is a cool link between my and Dexter’s work, with this kind of underground club culture. I think this space is where our work connects the most. This part of the story felt the most like my paintings, especially with the character in the mask. These photos feel like a direct translation of my work.

DN: It’s the idea of capturing things that don’t exist, and shooting things you’re not allowed to take photos of. I think we’re both interested in exploring things that don’t exist and things that you shouldn’t be allowed to be a part of. That’s what makes me want to take a photo and want to go somewhere. It’s about trying to be as unique as possible.

PT: I felt that in the process of how this was made. A lot of painters now use photographs as their starting point when creating something. This process felt inverted like the photos have come from these paintings. That was such an interesting part of this whole process.

FC: And out of interest, Pol, I know you’ve done some video work before, but are you interested in making long-form videos now?

PT: Yeah, recently I wanted to do so for a show in Brazil, but we ran out of time. It’s definitely something I want to do in the future. I also discussed it with Dexter at Mathilde’s birthday party.

FC: Everything was discussed at Mathilde’s birthday party!

FC: And Dex, any interest in painting?

DN: No, not painting, but Pol did inspire me to think about making things that are more about the artist’s hand, not just a print or an edition; making something you can’t reproduce or have two of. It’s a different point of view for me as an artist, moving away from fashion and music videos.

FC: So, not just commercial work?

DN: Yeah. Even just seeing how Pol is as an artist helped me understand who I am without any of the brands or the artists and musicians I work with. Like, what is my language? Even though I have one, what is my own perspective?

FC: Pol, this was a very open brief and you really ran with it, but the idea of creating something for a magazine or a book, how did that feel? It’s different from your usual format. Did you approach the process differently knowing where the final imagery would end up, or was it the same kind of process?

PT: I usually have a very solitary practice, so for me, this was very new. I think the interesting part of it is to be in control of the image you’re creating and presenting, which wouldn’t be the case for other magazines. This was also part of my conversation with you and Dexter, to have complete power and control over what we were creating. The format of your project is so interesting for artists because it’s expanding the studio in the hands of somebody else. Even with the old print issues of Plaster, you can see that there is more complexity and more freedom. I think we went quite crazy with this freedom.

DN: You gave us the freedom to just be ourselves. And that’s the goal.

FC: Let artists be artists. This project is really special. I think what you’ve both created here is amazing. Have you enjoyed collaborating?

PT: Yeah, and it’s not even done!

DN: It’s only done when we get drunk together like when we first started. When I’m speaking PYT language, then it’s done.

FC: Pol, if you could take one thing from the way Dexter works, what would it be?

PT: Ah, comment tu dis… improvisation.

FC: Dex?

DN: Being the master of your world, like on some Walt Disney shit. You know Pol’s world when you walk into it.

FC: Boom!

PT: Magnifique!

DN: And also don’t think about your world too much, just live it.

FC: Yeah, I agree.

DN: That’s the thing I love about Pol, he’s just mad with it. He’s not trying too hard, he’s just living. And that’s reflected in his work.

PT: Aw, my comment sounds like shit now!